After stumbling across one of your posts I felt the need to educate and
Have you ever read the Treaty of Tripoli? If not I have included article
11 which was written In 1797, only six years after the the Bill of
Rights. This Treaty was signed by President John Adams and read aloud on
the senate floor without any objection.
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any
sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no
character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of
Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of
hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties
that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an
interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries"
The constitution even says in the First Amendment : "Congress shall
make no law respecting an establishment of religion". It also
states in Article VI, Section 3 : " no religious test
shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust
under the United States." . If I was making a government that
would be formed around a religion I think I would make it a requirement
that any man in office be apart of that religion.
You make vague references in your post "standing your ground"
to historical documents which ambiguously mention the word God or
creator but no where mention the name of Jesus in which Christianity is
founded upon. To say that America was founded as a Christian nation is
incorrect, ignorant, and prideful. You make no proof anywhere that the
name of Jesus is in any historical federal document that helped form our
government. James Madison who is called the Father of the Constitution
even claims government does not need religion to secure and perpetuate
it. I see no proof that America was based on Christianity only senseless
ramblings about the name God in a couple of documents.
From: "Karen Pansler" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: "Christian Nation"
Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2012
Thank you for writing.
1) Yes, I have studied the
Treaty of Tripoli.
controversy about the recently circulated copy being a fraud.
There is evidence that the phrase "...the government of the
United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian
Religion..." was actually not part of that treaty. A revised
version of the Treaty of Tripoli, accepted April 17, 1806, after the US
went to war with Tripoli does not contain that phrase.
Nonetheless, if the phrase was included, Article 11 must be
read in its entirety. But even if shortened ("the government of the
United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian
religion"), this statement is not untrue as it is referring to the federal
government. Even while the Founders openly described America as a
Christian nation, they did include a constitutional prohibition against
a federal establishment of a mandatory
was left solely to the individual states. Therefore, if the Article is
read as a declaration that the federal government of the United States
was not in any sense founded on the Christian religion, such a statement
is not a repudiation of the fact that America was considered a Christian
nation. America was founded on Christian principles.
John Adams wrote to Thomas
Jefferson on June 28, 1813:
Could my answer be understood
by any candid reader or hearer, to recommend to all the others the
general principles, institutions, or systems of education of the Roman
Catholics, or those of the Quakers, or those of the Presbyterians, or
those of the Methodists, or those of the Moravians, or those of the
Universalists, or those of the Philosophers? No. The general
principles on which the fathers achieved independence, were the
only principles in which that beautiful assembly of young men could
unite, and these principles only could be intended by them in their
address, or by me in my answer. And what were these general
principles? I answer, the general principles of Christianity, in
which all those sects were united, and the general principles
of English and American liberty, in which all those young men united,
and which had united all parties in America, in majorities sufficient to
assert and maintain her independence. Now I will avow, that I then
believed and now believe that those general principles of
Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and
attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as
unalterable as human nature and our terrestrial, mundane system. I
could, therefore safely say, consistently with all my then and present
information, that I believed they would never make discoveries in
contradiction to these general principles. In favor of these general
principles, in philosophy, religion, and government, I could fill
sheets of quotations from Frederic of Prussia, from Hume, Gibbon,
Bolingbroke, Rousseau, and Voltaire, as well as Newton and Locke; not to
mention thousands of divines and philosophers of inferior fame.
The discussion in 2) will
expand on this further...
2) "Congress shall
make no law respecting an establishment of religion": Article 1 of
the first ten amendments to the Constitution of the United States (1791)
prohibits the establishment of a state religion, such as the Church of
England. In other words, the law may not establish a national church
and demand mandatory attendance or mandatory tithes. American
colonists were not forced to be members of the Church of England or any
other state religion; and could freely worship in the Christian church
of their choice.
of England is the
officially established religious institution
and also the Mother
Church of the
Communion. The British
monarch is the titular
leader of the Church of England."
Amendment to the U.S.
explicitly forbids the federal
enacting any law respecting a religious establishment, and thus forbids
either designating an official church for the United States, or
interfering with State
and local official churches ¡ª which were common when the First
Amendment was enacted. It did not prevent state
establishing official churches.
3) The word "God" is
often used in the Bible to denote the Holy Trinity. For example, Genesis
"In the beginning God
created the heaven and the earth"
And then in Genesis 1:26...
"And God said, Let us
make man in our image, after our likeness..." (Emphasis
This is plural name of persons
in the Godhead: Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
Over and over again in the
Bible, "God" is used in the plural (Trinity) and in the
singular (God the Father).
"Ambiguously mention the word God or creator"? "No where
mention the name of Jesus in which Christianity"? Did you read the
excerpts from the numerous historical documents? Cited documents use the
following words or phrases:
a. First Charter of Virginia,
1606: "in propagating of Christian religion to such People."
b. Mayflower Compact, 1620:
"Advancement of the Christian Faith."
c. Charter of Massachusetts
Bay, 1629: "Obedience of the onlie true God and Saulor of Mankinde,
and the Christian Fayth."
d. Fundamental Orders of
Connecticut, 1639: "to maintain and preserve the liberty and purity
of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ."
e. Articles of Confederation of
the United Colonies of New England, 1643: "to advance the Kingdom
of our Lord Jesus Christ."
f. Constitution of Virginia.
1776: "the duty we owe to our Creator...the mutual duty of all to
practice Christian forbearance."
g. Declaration of Independence:
"endowed by their Creator...the Supreme Judge of the world."
In the Bible...
"Remember now thy
Creator in the days of thy youth" (Ecclesiastes 12:1).
"And to God the Judge
of all" (Hebrews 12:23).
Again, "God" is
repeatedly used in the Bible for Godhead: Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
All of these concerns will
be more fully discussed in upcoming messages on Liberty Advocate.
Hopefully, you will read them and seek the truth about America's
Faithfully serving our Lord
Jesus Christ and Savior,
From: Lee <XXXX@gmail.com>
To: Karen Pansler <email@example.com>
Subject: Re: "Christian Nation"
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012
"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by
the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed
with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But
we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these
United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and
restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most
venerated reformer of human errors." -- Jefferson's letter to John
Adams, April 11 1823
Jefferson even wrote the "Jefferson bible" in which he removed
every miracle of Jesus.
And I will provide you with a more accurate quote of the mindset of John
God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is
got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.
-- John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the
myth of the Incarnation of Christ
Also from Benjamin Franklin
Lighthouses are more helpful than churches." -in Poor Richard's
George Washington was remembered by Thomas Jefferson
"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington
believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he
-Thomas Jefferson, in his private journal, Feb. 1800
These are quotes from our founding rathers and obviously they were not
christians but somehow they founded America as a Christian nation? You
provided me with only two documents that were after 1700 which only use
the word God or Creator. In reference to the use of the word God and
Creater, there are many religions that use the world God. Muslims even
use the word God and Creater but only Christians believe the Jesus was
God come in flesh but that is found no where in the founding documents
such as declaration of independence and the constitution.
Why did Paul waste his time preaching and writing instead of being
active in the Roman government and try to change into a democracy. Why
didn't he start a revolution because they were being persecuted . Life ,
liberty and the pursuit of happiness is not what Jesus promised, he
promised that if he was hated how much would they hate his followers.
Doesn't sound like life and liberty does it?
From: "Karen Pansler" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
Subject: Re: "Christian Nation"
Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012
Some of your concerns will be briefly discussed...
1) Jefferson's bible shows he did not wholly reject the Holy
Scriptures. He may have rejected the divinity of Jesus, but he did not
reject all Biblical teachings. Moreover, Jefferson was filled with
pride: "I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."
2) "Records of Thomas Jefferson's church-going habits are far
from complete. However, evidence does exist of his involvement with and
attendance at local churches throughout his life. His accounts record
donations to a number of different churches in Philadelphia, Washington,
D.C., and in Charlottesville."
3) You write...
God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy
is got rid of, there never will be any liberal science in the world.--
John Adams, "this awful blashpemy" that he refers to is the
myth of the Incarnation of Christ.
Note the highlighted:
The section in
bold is often attached to fragments from an earlier letter from Adams to
Jefferson (17 January 1820).
The Europeans are all deeply tainted with prejudices, both
ecclesiastical and temporal, which they can never get rid of. They are
all infected with episcopal and presbyterian creeds, and confessions of
faith. They all believe that great Principle which has produced this
boundless universe, Newton¡¯s universe and Herschell¡¯s universe,
came down to this little ball, to be spit upon by Jews. And until
this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there never will be any liberal
science in the world.
Letter to Thomas Jefferson (22 January 1825). The
section in bold is often attached to fragments from an earlier letter
from Adams to Jefferson (17 January 1820).
(Emphasis added.) http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Adams
4) George Washington...
His adopted daughter, Nelly
Custis-Lewis, in response to a request from Jared
Sparks in 1833 for information on Washington's religions
views, wrote, "He attended the church at Alexandria when the
weather and roads permitted a ride of ten miles (a one-way journey of
2-3 hours by horse or carriage). In New York and Philadelphia he never
omitted attendance at church in the morning, unless detained by
indisposition [sickness]." She continues by saying "No one in
church attended to the services with more reverential respect." She
adds: "I should have thought it the greatest heresy to doubt his
firm belief in Christianity. His life, his writings, prove that he was a
Christian. He was not one of those who act or pray, that they may be
seen of men." In closing, Nelly attempted to answer the question of
whether General Washington was a Christian. She responded, Is it
necessary that any one should certify, 'General Washington avowed
himself to me a believer in Christianity?' As well may we question his
patriotism, his heroic, disinterested devotion to his country. His
mottos were, 'Deeds, not Words'; and, 'For God and my Country.' 
Eyewitness accounts exist of Washington engaging in morning
devotions. Biographer Jared
Sparks recorded the following account from Washington's
nephew George W. Lewis: "Mr. Lewis said he had accidentally
witnessed [Washington's] private devotions in his library both morning
and evening; that on those occasions he had seen him in a kneeling
position with a Bible open before him and that he believed such to have
been his daily practice."
During the Revolutionary war, General Robert Porterfield stated he
"found him on his knees, engaged in his morning's devotions." Alexander
Hamilton corroborated Porterfield's account, stating
"such was his most constant habit."
A French citizen who knew Washington well during the Revolutionary War
and the presidency stated "Every day of the year, he rises at five
in the morning; as soon as he is up, he dresses, then prays reverently
Indeed, Washington had purchased a prayer book "with the New
Version of Psalms & good plain Type" a few years before the
5) Paul was called to preach the Gospel. The Jews were looking for a
Messiah who would establish a government so they could rule the world.
But Jesus came to establish the Kingdom of God, not the kingdom of man.
Incidentally, Paul claimed his legal rights as a Roman in Acts
22:25. "Is it lawful for you to scourge a man that is a
Roman, and uncondemned?"
Irrefutably, government is ordained by God:
"The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me, He that
ruleth over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God." 2 Samuel
Paul tells us that rulers are to act as ministers of God:
"For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil.
Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and
thou shalt have the praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to
thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he
beareth not the sword in vain; for he is the minister of God, a revenger
to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil." Romans 13:3,4
Civil government is ordained by God. And rulers are ministers of God
and must rule justly and in the best interests of those whom they are
given charge. There is an implicit covenant between God and rulers, and
an explicit covenant between rulers and the people. If a ruler breaches
the covenant - commits acts of tyranny - the people may resist the
tyrant. Yet resistance to authority should be a last resort, and only
when all more peaceful means have utterly failed to obtain justice and
redress of wrongs.
Hence, the Declaration of Independence redresses all the wrongs
colonists suffered under King George. And their petitions to the king
were of no avail:
"In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for
Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been
answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus
marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler
of a free people."
Read their list of grievances...read the entire
Declaration of Independence... http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/
6) As for Benjamin Franklin, he was not an atheist, he was not a
Muslim, he was not a Buddhist, and so forth. He believed in God and
believed He bestowed favors and goodness upon us:
"Let me then not fail to praise my God continually, for it is
his Due, and it is all I can return for his many Favours and great
Goodness to me; and let me resolve to be virtuous, that I may be happy,
that I may please Him, who is delighted to see me happy. Amen." http://www.historycarper.com/resources/twobf2/articles.htm
Was he a Christian? No. But he was not an atheist nor an
agnostic. And he was in the minority in America.
7) God is the Author of liberty, not man.
"Therefore thus saith the Lord; Ye have not hearkened unto me,
in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his
neighbor: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith the Lord, to the
sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be
removed into all the kingdoms of the earth." Jeremiah 34:17. See
also Jer. 17:24-27; 2 Chron. 36:19-21
God gives us certain inalienable rights, not man. And man must not
take them away.
America is a republic. The power of the republic is confined to the
proper defense of the individual: pursuits of life, liberty, property
and happiness - inalienable rights endowed by The Creator.
8) Our national monuments clearly proclaim America's Christian
"...the Washington Monument. The form of the Monument recalls
ancient Rome and Greece, but at its topmost point, inscribed on the
aluminum tip of the capstone, is the Latin phrase Laus Deo --
"Praise be to God." Along the stairway to that height are 190
carved tributes donated by states, cities, individuals, associations,
and foreign governments. The blocks resound with quotations from
Scripture -- "Holiness to the Lord" (Exodus 28),
"Search the Scriptures" (John 5:39), "The memory of the
just is blessed" (Proverbs 10:7) -- and such invocations as,
"May Heaven to this Union continue its Benefice."
9) The Treaty of Paris, signed on September 3, 1783, ended the
Revolutionary War between Great Britain and the United States and its
The Treaty opens with the following words:
"In the Name of the most Holy & undivided
10) It is the current fashion to denigrate America's Founding Fathers
and deny our Christian heritage. They point out Franklin and Jefferson,
but purposely refuse to point out the other 54 signers of the
Declaration of Independence and signers of other historical documents
who practiced Christianity.
11) The early political culture of the American republic was deeply
influenced by the New England preachers.
Sermons of the American Founding Era: 1730¨C1805
this book free online...
Sermons of the American Founding Era. - Online Library ...
The Online Library of Liberty is provided in order to encourage the
study of the ideal of a society of free and responsible individuals by
making freely ...
12) Finally, the inscription on the Liberty Bell is
"Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the Land
unto all the Inhabitants thereof."
I pray these brief answers to some of your concerns will encourage
you to learn the truth about Christian America. In the near
future, Liberty Advocate will expose the lies and deception
denying our Christian heritage. Don't be deceived: this is an
evil scheme to destroy our Christian heritage and American
patriotism to get us to willingly submit to the New World Order.
It's the undeniable truth: America was founded by Christians and for
Faithfully serving our Lord Jesus Christ,
See also: "Stand Your Ground" @ http://www.libertyadvocate.com/message%2020.htm